didymos
Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008
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| Quote (didymos @ Oct. 17 2009,22:24) | | Quote (sparc @ Oct. 17 2009,21:41) | | Quote (olegt @ Oct. 17 2009,08:10) | niwrad summarizes the discussion on the 2nd law of thermodynamics:
| Quote | It seem to me an important questions is: Maxvell’s demon does violate or does not violate SLoT? Just here not all commenters agree. In my opinion Maxvell’s demon can be considered in two main senses: (1) a machine, an artificial system (one-way filter); (2) a thermodynamic metaphor of intelligence.
(1) Maxvell’s demon as a machine. But there are many kinds of machines, and then we have again to distinguish.
(A) Maxvell’s demon as a mechanical-thermo machine. In this case I agree with Monastyrski #71 when says “the decrease in entropy caused by the intelligent demon is more than compensated for by an increase in the demon’s own entropy”. SLoT is not violated.
(B) Maxvell’s demon as a computer. If the Maxvell’s demon is a computer for which the Landauer’s principle is involved, according to givemeabreak #75, there is no increase of entropy because computation per se does not consume energy. SLoT is violated.
(2) Maxvell’s demon as intelligence. But what is intelligence in the first place? This is one of the above fundamental and difficult questions. Without knowing what intelligence is how can we to speak about Maxvell’s demon, which is one of its symbols? Intelligence can be considered in two main senses: (A) physical intelligence; (B) pure intelligence or metaphysical intelligence.
(A) If intelligence is a physical agent then energy is involved. SLoT is not violated.
(B) If intelligence is a metaphysical entity then no energy is involved. SLoT is violated. |
(...) |
Could it be that niwraD comes from eastern Europe? Googling "Maxvell" and "dilema" resulted rather in Russian than in Italian sites.
eddited to correct tags. |
Well, we may be getting some more data in the near future:
osteonectin pokes a tard: | Quote |
niwrad @76:
Are Italian keyboards different from American? Otherwise I would suggest that you try at least to spell Maxwell’s name correct while discrediting physics.
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Well, new data has arrived.
niwrad is Italian: | Quote |
osteonectin #82
The idea of discrediting physics is very far from me and I don’t understand what caused such false impression to you. I have an high consideration of physics and think it (and any hard science when is not biased by prejudices) as friend of ID. Moreover I have an high consideration of many physicists and, specifically, for Maxwell my admiration cannot be higher (not only for his important contributions to thermodynamics).
I challenge any one to find something in this post (and other posts of mine) that is offensive to physics. The fact itself that I decided to post here about thermodynamics and ID (considering the former allied of the latter) is a proof of that. Besides the fact itself that I consider Maxwell’s demon (which some consider an unimportant imaginary trick only) very seriously and say it can suggest interesting scientific and philosophical remarks is another proof of that.
Sorry for my fault in spelling Maxwell’s name. Obviously it doesn’t depend by the keyboard (I always use US keyboards and don’t like IT ones because the former are more apt for scientific work in general while the latter for writing Italian prose only).
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The Niwrad == Sermonti hypothesis may or may not have been strengthened by this depending on your philosophical leanings and the fact that no bananas were spotted in the thread.
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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio
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